Remington Steele:  Pierce Brosnan and Stephanie Zimbalist
SOTW: Episode #04- Signed, Steeled & Delivered
by Xenos1981   (Fri Oct 20 2006 10:40:18 ) 

Just a friendly reminder ladies and gentlemen...Tonight's episode is Signed, Steeled and Delivered! Post away...
by pianoRose   (Fri Oct 20 2006 15:50:27 ) 

I'm watching. Been busy the last week so haven't been able to post as much. Love reading all the comments though!
by Xenos1981   (Fri Oct 20 2006 17:28:33 )

We missed you, pianoRose! Glad you're back. BTW, what happened with your I-pod/CD? Ooops...Wrong thread. Find your old post and let me know, OK? Thanks!


by jrdedrick (Fri Oct 20 2006 20:14:33 ) 

Ok, since Xenos so ordered, I have dutifully obeyed. Not the easiest ep in the world to take notes on, or one of my favs, but it does have some redeeming moments. Here's my notes and I hope they don't put anyone to sleep!

What was with the hair dye? I never quite got that. And why was it all over the walls?

Hmmm, do my taxes or spend a weekend with Murphy? Easy choice for our leading lady. Taxes sound SO much more fun! And I have to wonder if this is when Bernice met her saxophone player?

Why is she so upset that he waited until seemingly last minute to ask her out? Heck, I'd have dropped everything if he'd asked me out, and besides he's asked her out later than that before. But he still helped her on with her jacket and pulled her hair out of the way. It was way to cute! And Laura is a bad liar, LOL.

Why was Remington just coming into the office at 5:45 anyway?

Assault by hatrack, that's a great one! Wish I'd thought of that. Did he think by breaking the hatrack on Remington's desk that it would get his attention, where his unusual appearance wouldn't? I know he said that Mr. Steele had to be X-CIA because there was no information on him, but wouldn't the answer man know for sure? I mean he knows all that other useless information. And if the CIA is listed in the phonebook and in the lobby why is it so secret?

I think its sad that Laura has the number for the pizza place memorized. She must have had it to eat a lot! And prawn, shrimp? Its all fish to me!

Mens clothes in Laura's closet! I loved Mr. Steele's reaction to it and how he kept asking her over and over about them! But I can't imagine Wilson wearing bikini underware! But I guess that's what Bankers who do it with interest do!

I love the scene with the car at the lake and that they are "finally" sleeping together! LOL I also love how Mr. Steele says he's going to tell Murphy. Do you think he did?

After the car is blown up in the parking garage why wasn't Sheldon afraid anymore? I mean he just takes off for his wedding like all that running he had been doing for the last four days meant nothing. Loved the glasses when Mr. Steele was being Simon Courtney and how Laura went after the nurse like it was the easiest thing in the world.

Anyway, now that I'm sure I've bored you totally to death, I'm done! LOL I'm looking forward to reading the other comments!


by attagrrrl   (Sat Oct 21 2006 01:19:07 ) 

What a weird episode. I had the same question as Neeny. Why the heck was Sheldon coloring his hair red, and why was the dye all over the hotel room? Also, does he really think the woman in the car behind him is flirting with him? He looks disgusting! And why does he go after Mr. Steele with a hat rack? Is that his usual way of trying to get someone to help him? There are just so many weird moments in this episode. Mr. Steele's line "Relax Sheldon, remember you're only wearing a towel" has always struck me as odd. And what's up with Lucille's dad drugging her? What is that about? (Lucille, by the way, is extremely annoying.) And finally, why does Laura have a picture of a bunny above her phone?

Even with all the weirdness, though, it's an enjoyable episode. The Murphy/Laura/Steele dynamics are especially interesting. First, there's Laura's conversation with Murphy at the beginning. It's so obvious that she is just humoring him and that she really has no desire to go away with him for a weekend. Technically, she's not lying because she never actually said she wanted to go, so that whole conversation is just her giving him the run-around. She is so dismissive of him at the beginning and the very end I almost feel sorry for him. 

On the other hand, she certainly jumps at the opportunity to go on a date with Mr. Steele! Here we see a dynamic we don't see much between them, with Mr. Steele treating Laura in an offhand manner, while she expresses genuine interest in being with him. He breezes in to work at the end of the day, and then insults her by asking her out as a back-up plan when his other plans fall through. Again we see Mr. Steele as a bit of a womanizer, treating Laura like he would treat any other woman, with one female easily substituting for another. It is to Laura's great credit that she does not put up with that kind of treatment. To assume she is free on a Friday night is bad enough, but to use her as a last-minute replacement for some other woman is just unacceptable. I love the way she later tries to cover up the fact that her Friday night date was with a pizza, not a person.

We get to see more of Laura's vulnerability later in the episode in the "sleeping together" car scene. I think this is the first we hear of Laura's fear that she'll get in "too deep." It's not explicitly stated, but I get the sense that Murphy is worried about Laura because he has seen her get in too deep and get hurt by White Belt (I believe his real name turns out to be Wilson or Winston). Also the fact that Laura has recently lived with someone explains her relationship with Murphy. I have always wondered why he waited until Steele came along to make a move on her, but I guess it was because before Steele there was White Belt.

Another thing I really like about this episode is all the action Laura gets. I love the grocery store scene where everyone she meets seem like a potential bad guy. Then there's the great fight scene with the nurse. 

Other quick observations:

I love the line "I'd ask you to take a seat, but you've already helped yourself to some furniture."

It seems like after the CIA guy threatens an audit, Laura would have realized she needed to file a tax return for Mr. Steele.

Neeny, I think the reason Sheldon ran off after the car bombing is that he was trying to be more like Mr. Steele and therefore wanted to be brave and go to his wedding.

I do not care for Laura's wedding attire. And Mr. Steele's attempt at doing the tango is just sad. It seems to me very out of character for Mr. Steele to be so bad at something.

by Xenos1981   (Sat Oct 21 2006 08:50:38 ) 

Nice observations Neeney and attagrrrl! (I'm proud of you Neeners for finally posting...and you definitely did not bore anyone!) First, I have to preface my comments with a story about when this episode first aired. I remember seeing the promos for it and practically hyperventilating! "Finally...we're sleeping together." Called all my friends and counted down the minutes till RS was on! (It was almost as bad as when I thought we'd finally see them consummate their relationship in the last episode! Shut down both times! Darn!)

Did anyone notice a striking resemblance between Sheldon Quarry and David "Ross Geller" Schwimmer?! It was distracting to me!

One thing that I noticed right off the bat was the really awesome use of the "Remington Steele Investigations" print on the door of the suite. I always LOVE it when they backlight it and we see the shadow on the wall. They did it twice in this episode and once in Tempered Steele. I could be wrong, but I think this was the last episode they used that technique. Pity...It's so noir-ish!

LOVE the Laura/Remington interaction in this. What's not to love, eh? Again, in these early episodes, Laura seems so much more vulnerable...I LOVE IT! "In too deep." *sigh* I also love how in these early episodes Remington seems to have the upper hand with keeping his feeling in check and Laura gets flustered. In this episode, however, she gets the upper hand when he finds Wilson's clothes. You can see the hidden delight in her face and body language when he starts wondering about her past...And it really seems to bug him! (Bonus!!!) LOVE how even when he's upset about finding Wilson's stuff, he still maintains his haughty persona -- "You lived with a man who wears white belts? Am I disappointed!" Classic Steele! Loved how hurt Remington looks when she gives him the "in too deep" speech. And her "damn" was so perfect. (Oh, and attagrrrl, I really do believe Steele would tell Murphy. It's a guy thing.)

So funny that Laura knows the phone number to the pizza place. (I must admit, I'd probably know the number for our local pizza place, too, if it weren't for speed dial.)

Icebox question: Why would Sheldon's best man see the tux boxes in the passenger seat and go around to the driver's side to get in? Wouldn't he just move the boxes? It would have been more plausible to say that the passenger's door was locked, so he went around to the driver's side. Picky, picky...I know.

Unlike everyone else, I thought the Murphy/Laura scene at the beginning was so sweet. I'd totally fall for him (if the perfect RS wasn't in the picture). At this point, I think Laura is just so oblivious to the fact that Murphy could actually harbor feelings for her that she leads him on without being conscious of it. Poor Murph! 

The towel comment attagrrrl didn't like always makes me laugh. 

LOVED the scene with Sheldon telling Remington about how "normal" people live. Pierce played that scene of just listening to perfection! You could totally tell what he was thinking...and it made me feel really sad for him. Then, when he gave his "sugary slop" speech to the closed door...Gave me chills. Quite the contrast to the Steele we see in the first part of Tempered Steele. Glad they went in this direction.

OK, I think I'm writing too much. I'll save some things for other people to comment on.


by picac   (Sat Oct 21 2006 09:14:16 ) 

OK right off I LOVE the towel line. It might be one of my favorites ever uttered by Steele because it's so real, so funny and rather risque. Think of all the implications of one man wearing a towel getting a tad too close and a tad too excited next to another. LOL

This entire scene is great though and Tom Bray does an excellent job of acting with Sheldon. As Xenos points out, when Sheldon is going on about the simple pleasures in life of finding someone to love and a place to belong as something Steele wouldn't know about it works ona couple of levels. There's the surface one that of course he woudn't he's the great Remington Steele, or that the adventurous imposter wouldn't know because that would be considered dull by him, and then the very real subtext beause of what we learn later -- that he never knew about that or dreamed about that because he'd never had that in his life even as a child. The speech at the door again works on two levels, that Steele actually believes what he tells Sheldon or that he actually thinks it's sugary glop -- and it's probably both.

"You lived with a man that wore white belts. Am I dissapointed". Another all time great Steele line. Jealous and yet haughty and very funny at the same time. Seeing Steele flustered by the idea that Laura IS living with someone and then even upset that she ever did live with someone is a joy. And yes even as Laura rushes about she seems pleased. Oh I can never look at Wilson with a straight face when he shows up, what with the white belt, bikini underwear and the T-shirt. LOL!

"We're sleeping together" and "In too deep" -- just great and it shows that Lautra is no longer having the same concerns as in Tempered. She's not worried about losing professional control of her object of lust but rather losing her heart to someone she could get in too emotionally deep with who might leave the next day. And you see from his reaction that he takes that to heart, that's she's not just the next name in his ever impressive black book.

As for why Sheldon was dying his hair -- it was to disguise himself. As to why it was all over, he's a complete nerve wracked geek and he was probably jumping at every noise while shaking the bottle and applying the dye. Even so it's a stretch. The fact that he though the girl was flirting means he's never ever looked in a mirror, let alone that day with the dye fiasco. But while Shledon may be the Answer Man when it comes to facts his perceptions of people and social situations (what was with threatening someone with a hatrack when you want their help?) are more than a little skewed -- afterall he falls for the screeching annoying Lucille. I loved when her father told her to shut up!

What else? Oh love the entire CIA -- No that's not a residence -- and the "rainy season in Danang" faceoff. Oh and lest we forget, Laura giving her guy vague CIA connections is another instance of her glorious fraud coming back to bite her. And there's also the first Bond reference on Steele -- men with killer hats from Goldfinger. :D 

by DCZinger   (Sat Oct 21 2006 10:27:31 ) 

Signed, Steeled and Delivered is NOT one of my favorite Caron episodes. Too many suspensions of disbelief, and Thom Bray annoyed me as much THEN as he does now. But there were some choice moments. 

Did anyone recognize Judy Robinson from Lost in Space as the Blond? I know I’m dating myself here, but that’s Marta Kristen. I kept waiting for the Robot to pop into a scene. Danger, Danger Will Robinson, I mean Laura Holt! 

Oh, yeah…before Sheldon comes out in that towel…Love the look on Steele’s face as he’s sitting on Laura’s couch, thumbing through Laura’s school YEARBOOK. His face is all soft and there’s a little smile there. 

I’m not surprised that Steele pops into the office at 5:45, just before his date. He may have stopped to change ties or pick up the tickets. I loved the way Steele fixes Laura’s hair as she puts on her jacket, and the way Laura’s hair bounces as she stomps away. 

What’s with the CROUP? This is a sickness in young children…I know cuz the Zingerchild gets it every winter! Croup manifests itself late at NIGHT with a seal like, barking cough. It’s easily handled with rest or cool night air, or a steamy shower or in the worst cases, a steroid shot. Could Mr. Steele actually date a woman with small children? Pierce YES, but Steele NO. I think it WASN’t the croup but that Gail was angry at Steele for something? Perhaps she found out she wasn’t the ONLY one who got one of those silly nameplates? Ah…there’s a story. 

Did the blonde KILL the CIA man? I distinctly see a red splotch on the back of the poor guys neck when Laura walks into the room. Looks to me like the Blonde shot the poor guy through the neck. If so, then WHY isnt’ the wedding crawling with cops ? CIA? Why is everybody just sitting around later relaxing, putting their fingers all over the book...which is EVIDENCE, tangoing, and having a good time and taking wedding photos? Uh, yeah…if MY father had just been arrested for espionage and murder and at my wedding…I wouldn’t be too concerned about taking photos! 

I know there’s a story behind that shot they inserted of Stephanie coming in the room with the Blonde and the CIA guy wearing an ill fitting WIG with the fedora sitting on top. I’m sure they forgot to shoot it earlier and then came back and just rushed the thing becuz Steph looks darn silly. 

Lucille's wedding dress and the pink bridesmaid’s dresses bring to mind the horrible wedding fashion of the early 80’s. Shudder, shudder. I still fondly recall the hoop skirt and parasol monstrosity I was forced to wear for my cousin’s 1982 wedding. 

I love the “in too deep” scene because we finally see that Steele really does care for our Laura. If he didn’t, it wouldn’t bother him a bit that she didn’t trust him with her heart. She is probably the first woman to affect him like that, or else he wouldn’t be such a clueless bonehead about romancing her. He thinks he’s romancing Laura when they have a taco together! Glen Caron really musta liked this scene too, because we see it almost VERBATIM in a Moonlighting episode almost a year later. 


by attagrrrl   (Sat Oct 21 2006 10:59:17 ) 

I meant to say something about the croup being a baby disease too. Is Mr. Steele dating a 3-month-old?

And I also thought it looked like Laura was wearing a wig at some point at the wedding. What was up with that?

I think the blonde nurse just knocked out the CIA man and was about to finish him off when Laura walked in. They say something about her hitting him later in the ep, so I think it's implied that he's not dead, but yeah, it's not entirely clear. I also got a feeling that a lot of stuff was cut out of this episode that needed to be in it for it to make more sense.

I should have made clearer earlier, though, that I really like some of the bizarre things in the episode like the towel line and the bunny photo. I am finding the early episodes to have a kind of strange, eccentric, and racy quality (which I like) that seems to fade as the show goes on. 

by dtalley   (Sat Oct 21 2006 12:46:13 )

I've always loved this episode. I didn't have a VCR until "Steeling the Show" aired and my TV was out the night "Signed" was repeated on NBC. It was several months before I managed to get a dub of it from someone, so I greatly valued this episode when it arrived.

The 'feel' of this episode fits right in with "St. Waters" and the rest of 1st season. "Tempered" was a 'fish out of water' and not really indicative of RS.

I hear adults talking about having the croup and/or being croupy, so that expression didn't strike me as strange.

Love the quiet joy R took in looking through L's yearbook. Love L's little grin as she prepares a flashlight and food while R is going on about her living with a man and then later in the elevator when he again about the chap she lived with.

What fun to see L's elusive CIA gop come back to haunt her!! That was priceless, as was R taking charge the next morning and setting up a visit with the CIA. Indeed, he's the best thing since sliced bread.

I've always liked the very atmospheric scene where Laura is being followed, jumps out of the car, starts running in the middle of the street and then dashes into the grocery store, randomly throwing items into her cart. The music in that scene is spectacular. I can hear it in my head as I think about the scene!

Remington and Laura actually talked about their relationship and their feelings more in 1st season than they did later. They were just in the beginning stages of feeling things out, but they didn't mind sharing their feelings. It's a shame they couldn't have hung onto some of that trait.

Sheldon is such a nebbish (as R says) and I love the way R takes such a genuine interest in helping him. I've always loved how R takes such an interest in people who really need help. He especially has such a soft spot for the elderly and those down on their luck.

Actually, I think Remington's tango with Laura is quite endearing. I love the way he grabs her up into his arms and starts asking about the chap she lived with as he dances with her on the lawn. Loves Laura laugh there, too.


by DCZinger   (Sat Oct 21 2006 13:01:16 ) 

I agree Debra that Season ONE is indeed the season where in just about every episode, something important to their relationship is shown. That's why Season One is many a fan's favorite season. We even end Season One with Remington and Laura going for "tea". But I guess someone realized that at the rate they were going, Remington and Laura would have had no place left to go except to bed and series oblivion. 

Well, in beginning of Season Two..we do have some excellent talks about their feelings...The hotel room in Mexico where Laura backs off, the "If you asked me" scene where Remington backs off, the necklace scene in "Scene Steelers". 

Then things change in the middle of Season Two and Remington and Laura start playing it real close to the vest. Is it about then that they both realize that they are "in too deep"? 
By Steele Threads, Remington is crying because there was so much he should have told her, and didn't. Hmmmmm. They have the opportunity to discuss that moment later and they both take a pass, much to our irritation. 

We don't have another rollicking good fight until Season Three's fantastic Cannes argument. 


by Xenos1981   (Sat Oct 21 2006 16:31:18 ) 

Yeah, I agree with your assessment about the progression of their relationship -- and talks about their relationship -- from season one thru season two, Zinger. But, we also can't forget that Mildred had some excellent chats with the two of them. Bernice was a great friend for Laura and listened/offered advice as only she could. (Loved that!) But Mildred was a great friend for Laura and Remington...which was a total bonus! Now, even if Remington can't communicate his feelings about Laura to Laura, at least he has Mildred...The great scene when Laura is getting suntan lotion rubbed on her...Mildred trying to keep Remington from bedding Miss Fairbush and betraying Laura...

But I agree, more conversation between L & R would have been excellent...As would have a little more "action". 

by attagrrrl   (Sat Oct 21 2006 19:27:20 ) 

Just an FYI about Mr. Steele's evident tendency to date MUCH younger women. Maybe Bernice is actually making a vague joke about her being young:

Croup (sometimes referred to as croup syndrome or laryngotracheobronchitis) is a respiratory disease which afflicts infants and young children, typically aged between 3 months and 5 years. The respiratory symptoms are caused by inflammation of the larynx and upper airway, with resultant narrowing of the airway.

by dtalley   (Sat Oct 21 2006 19:52:57 ) 

Like I said, I've heard lots of adults talk about having the croup. They just mean they're hoarse and stuffed up. I don't think it was said on the show in an effort to indicate anything. And as for R having displayed an 'evident tendency to date MUCH younger women', I don't recall any tendencies along those lines. 


by jrdedrick (Sat Oct 21 2006 20:04:26 ) 

I took four pages of notes that even I ended up having to "interpret". That's sad that I couldn't even read my own writing. LOL I had more to say but since I couldn't figure out what I had written, I didn't. 

And no, I didn't see any resemblance between Sheldon and Ross. I always thought Ross (David Schwimmer) was really cute and don't think that the guy who played Sheldon was at all.


by picac   (Sat Oct 21 2006 20:55:49 ) 

Debra, it's a joke about Steele dating MUCH younger women --- based on the average croup sufferer being under 5 years old -- though in this case old enough to use the phone herself to cancel the date. LOL! 

Seriously, considering PB was 28-29 during the first Season of RS -- he couldn't really be dating MUCH younger women unless they were jail bait. 

by dtalley   (Sun Oct 22 2006 06:49:19 ) 

Guess I took the comment about RS's tendency to date much younger women too seriously. I thought y'all were referring to some specific incidences and I knew I didn't recall any.


by jrdedrick (Sun Oct 22 2006 15:50:42 ) 

Ok, what do you think? I know that a lot of series use the excuse that if they get their characters together to soon or whatever that they'll lose their viewing audience. I don't know about anybody else, but when I want characters together and then they put them together and IMMEDIATELY pull them back apart, it makes me mad! I stopped watching one show because of it. I mean, give us a GOOD love story and if the characters are good enough, I think they could carry it off. 

I'm just spewing here. LOL I got so frustrated that we didn't get ENOUGH of them being together.


by DCZinger   (Sun Oct 22 2006 16:48:53 ) 

I'm with YOU Neeney...I would have happily watched years of Remington and Laura settling into their roles as husband and wife, solving mysteries, solving the mystery on who the heck Steele IS--it would have made better TV just to have left it at us not knowing who gave Patrick O'Rourke the watch...they could have really milked it for all it was worth...instead of a hastily put together too quick revelation and death scene with Daniel. Oh, yeah..some more romance too. 

Remington Steele got pigeonholed a little because they were competing with other shows that did things that they wanted to do. Laura and Remington couldn't be the blissfully happy duo solving mysteries like the 30's comedy they were modeled from "The Thin Man"....then we would have had "Hart to Hart" without the bucks. They couldn't do too much bickering and too-silly shows or else we'd have "Moonlighting". They couldn't get too gritty or they'd be like all the other shows out there after Miami Vice and/or Beverly Hills Cop. The couldn't get into too much government intrigue because we already had "The Scarecrow and Mrs. King". 


by jrdedrick (Sun Oct 22 2006 17:43:14 ) 

But even with all that, it still would have been Remington Steele. It was different from other shows. LOL As a fan of Scarecrow and Mrs. King too, I am totally convinced that both shows had good enough leads that they could have gone on and on. But that's just me. They ended. Fare thee well, adios and so on. But I was just wondering if anybody else felt the same.


by MickeyBoggs   (Sun Oct 22 2006 18:46:41 ) 

Since I'm so late posting and many of my points have already been covered, I'll just throw in these extras:

1. Why did Murphy bring his clubs into the office both on Friday and back again on Monday? On Friday he should have just left them in the car, but I can think of no plausible reason for him to have brought them in on Monday morning (unless he drove back from Palm Springs that morning).

2. Someone commented on RS being shown on the opposite wall of the hallway - but if it was supposedly coming from the office door, it would have been the mirror image of the RS name; as it is, it's readable!

3. Someone touched on this but both Sheldon and Price commented on RS's lack of records. That should have been a hint to Miss Holt that records were needed now that RS was flesh-n-blood.

4. While watching Sheldon eat, R & L suddenly both have cups of tea (or coffee). Where did they come from? We never saw them even poured, much less made.

5. While fleeing L's house, while R is questioning about the white belt, etc. L not only pulls out a flashlight, she pulls out 2 sticks of dynamite. Dynamite? WHY, pray tell, does she have that just sitting in a drawer in her house?

6. Mr. Steele apparently had some spare change for a phone call THIS time

7. Love how SZ/LH gives just a brief shadow of a smile in the elevator scene when R asks L about her live-in lover. LH just LOVES having something in her past that RS really wants to know about.

8. Somehow PB makes Simon Courtney appear to have slightly bucked teeth - though he doesn't. He raises his upper lip or does something to give Simon a different looking mouth than RS.

9. Love L tackling the blonde. As they tumble down the stairs, the lower part of her dress flies up over her waist. That's SZ wanting to do her own stunts like the boys! You go girl.

by Xenos1981   (Sun Oct 22 2006 19:26:29 ) 

5. While fleeing L's house, while R is questioning about the white belt, etc. L not only pulls out a flashlight, she pulls out 2 sticks of dynamite. Dynamite? WHY, pray tell, does she have that just sitting in a drawer in her house?
WHAT?!?! I have to go back and check that out. DYNAMITE?!?!

Another question...Why does Laura have a salad made up just sitting there on her countertop?

Back to Neener's and Zinger's discussion...I think two years -- three tops -- would have sufficed before they "crossed that line". I'm one who tends to believe in the Brian Alan Lane theory that "it's all in the tease". (Ducking!) However, I think them trying to keep their sleeping together under wraps could have been hysterical...Although it would have been funnier if Murph and Bernice were still there. (Mildred would just be ecstatic!) 

However, given what we got and assuming season five would have played out for the full 22 episodes, I think it would have been doable -- very doable -- to have them "mix business with pleasure"...often...and for us to see!!!


by jrdedrick (Sun Oct 22 2006 19:52:09 ) 

I thought they looked like sticks of dynamite too, but then I thought for sure that they just could NOT be! LOL It IS all in the tease, Xenos, but I think with the right actors it still could have worked! LOL


by picac   (Sun Oct 22 2006 21:12:59 ) 

LOL! I'm pretty sure they're flares. Laura can't keep track of the agency gun and bullets, the idea of her with dynamite in her house -- maybe sitting in the toaster oven is scary stuff. :D
by linda67045   (Mon Oct 23 2006 09:05:19 ) 

I too have wondered about the matter of the tease, well known as TV shows’ expiration date, and in all these long years still have not been able to understand why all writers, and I say all because even in my country or in Germany they think all alike (great minds think alike?!), always feel as the characters they are writing can’t keep the audience watching if there isn’t anymore the original tease. So after they resolve the tease or whatever they think it’s a tease, they just seem loosing their ability to write and just turn the characters in some silly piece of wood. Is there one and only one tease in a show? Is there some kind of dictat because of what you can’t shift the tease on another level or you can’t try your best to keep the audience interested (Tony in RS was not the case, tough)?

Is there any show where they have been able to go on after the tease was not there anymore?

I can remind only of The Nanny, a very good comedy, and that show went soon in the t-can because of the TeaseLack Disease or ala House TLD.


by MickeyBoggs   (Mon Oct 23 2006 11:46:16 ) 

You're probably right. I bet they are flares, but that never occurred to me while watching the ep. I wrote that note down as I was watching but before I typed up my thoughts I went back and double-checked 'cause it just seemed so odd. Even so, they LOOK enough like dynamite to make me laugh. As you note, with the trouble they all have laying their hands on the agency gun, it's not that impossible for her to have "misplaced" the "dynamite"! :)
by pianoRose   (Mon Oct 23 2006 12:24:24 ) 

Oh, Mickey I liked your comments. I liked everyones but the dynamite and the fight with blonde and murph's clubs were very interesting 

I only watched this ep once. I guess that tells how well I liked it. too many disconnects for me starting with the hair dye thing. he thinks some blonde is eyeing him when he has hair dye running over his head?


by Xenos1981   (Mon Oct 23 2006 12:55:05 ) 

...Not to mention that Sheldon's hair was brown at his wedding. What happened to the red dye?!?!

Mick...Loved the "misplaced the dynamite" thing! Heh-heh-heh!

Linda...I honestly can't say I know of one single show that "made it" after the two leads got married. Anyone care to correct me?

by jrdedrick (Mon Oct 23 2006 13:09:47 ) 

Flares make sense. LOL More than dynamite that is. But I still don't know of anybody who has them in their drawers in their house.

I think that's why I didn't get the hair dye thing....because it suddenly disappeared!

As for the shows having "made it" after the two leads got married I can't think of maybe one or two, but it seems to me it wasn't because they got together, it was because of how they were written once they were together. Just my opinion, however. LOL


by MickeyBoggs   (Mon Oct 23 2006 13:12:21 ) 

I don't know of a show that "made it" after the characters got married. I think Scarecrow & Mrs. King could have if Kate hadn't gotten sick. I think Steele could have, if it had been handled properly.

When execs trot out this argument I always want to point them back to Elizabeth Peters' Amelia Peabody series of books where the real adventures began AFTER the characters got married. Granted, they didn't have a long courtship like we see with TV (they met during the first book and got married between books 1 & 2), but they're still going strong 20-something years later with their now-grown son, his wife and their twins! And I suppose it's easier to crank out one new book a year rather than 22 hours of TV, but still...whether they mean to or not, it implies that once you get married, that's pretty much it. And we all know there's more to each couple's story than that!

by picac   (Mon Oct 23 2006 13:29:32 ) 

They didn't need to get married, they needed to have sex though by the 3rd season, and early 4th at the latest. They should have used Approval for a luanching into that new arc and stage of intimacy instead of having it reset them almost to the start of Season Two. The four plus years of tease for that was just ridiculous, and by prolonging it they damaged the show and compromised the relationship and the characters, particularly Laura. The idea that with almost no foundation for it that Gleason wanted them to actually get married, and not as a part of a scam at the end of Season 4, I find mind boggling. They weren't ready to get married IMO unless it was part of a scam.

The problem with pointing at shows where characters have sex or get married and then seeing the downturn in the show is that most of these shows only get to the sex/marriage when they feel they've got nothing else to do and are scrabbling to hold on with some big stunt. By then they've usually lost a lot of their audience and compromised their shows by holding out too long. By making their main plot and characters about just the tease they're the ones that limit what they can do. It becomes a self fullfilling prophecy. As said in another topic, conflict and tensions between characters and within a relationship doesn't stop after sex or even after marriage. To say it does is a cop out and a lack of imagination, vision and plotting on the part of the producer/writers.

Oh and I MUCH prefer John and Vicky to the Peabody pairing -- note they managed to have sex in the first book and still had plenty of issues for 3 more books after that (though I so wish she'd have written more and slowed down on the Peabody books). ;-)

by Xenos1981   (Mon Oct 23 2006 14:10:52 ) 

All good points, ladies. I think I'm one of the only ones who actually liked (make that loved) and saw great promise with Laura and Remington's fishboat wedding. So many issues to work through -- living arrangements, family relationships, work dynamics and (most importantly) sex. It was a great beginning without having them be "legally bound", so to speak. And it could have been absolutely hysterical to boot! (Think "Peppler"!) Unfortunately, the writers approached greatness and veered left. I, for one, would have liked to see a fifth season written by Brian Allen Lane ("Dreams of Steele"), Lee Ztloff ("Red Holt Steele"), Glen Gordon Caron ("Hearts of Steele") and Susan Baskin ("Vintage Steele"). (Sorry for butchering the spelling of their names.) I bet they could have pulled it off brilliantly!
by jrdedrick (Mon Oct 23 2006 14:22:58 ) 

Once again, Xenos, I have to agree with you. Those writers wrote some of my favorite eps and could have done brilliantly I think! I'm also with you that there was plenty of tension with them having gotten married on the boat.

As for those books, who wrote them? I've never heard of them but they sound really good. I'd love to read them!


by MickeyBoggs   (Mon Oct 23 2006 14:31:30 ) 

The Amelia Peabody books are by Elizabeth Peters, which is a pseudonym for Barbara Michaels. The Vicki Bliss (?) series is, I think under her real name, though I'm sure Ace will know for sure.

The first book in the Amelia series is Crocodile on the Sandbank. The series begins in the 1800s when lots of British folks would head off to Egypt during the winter to look for treasure. She's still writing at least one Peabody book a year and they're currently in the during-or-just-after WW I period.

by MickeyBoggs   (Mon Oct 23 2006 14:36:59 ) 

Xenos, you have just listed several of my favorite writers. Clervaux and I have often discussed that we wish Gleason and Susan Baskin could collaborate on some new stuff and wash the whole 5th season out of our minds. I'd even add Rick Mittleman (Sensitive) and Gerald Sanoff (Premium) into the mix. If we skip the 5th season, Brad Kern (Beg, Borrow) had some nice eps too.
by DCZinger   (Mon Oct 23 2006 14:38:08 ) 

I'm with YOU on this Xenos. The tuna boat wedding was soooo unlike the typical TV wedding we've seen.....that they had no where to go but UP. 

Sooo many issues to work through...Steele's deception, Laura's reaction, Abigail and Daniel's reaction, dealing with who lives where, name changes for Laura, Laura getting used to being treated as the "little woman", dealing with the INS, dealing with their own feelings in light of everything that went on, how different solving cases are NOW that they have a spouse to worry about. I like to think that Laura would get sneered at a lot in the supermarket for being the woman that "stole" one of LA's top bachelors! Not to mention a scene we NEVER GOT...Felicia's reaction to HER Michael tying the knot with LuLu! Finally, Laura and Remington coming to the conclusing that not only are they better together, they are better together married. Plenty of script fodder here! I think that all of our writers plus Susan Baskin could have easily written plenty of fun stuff. 

In the meantime, we have our own stable of excellent fanfic writers with stories already out there, plus new fic writers in the works. 


by jrdedrick (Mon Oct 23 2006 15:11:20 ) 

Thanks Mickey! I'll have to look for those. I need something new to read anyway.


by pianoRose   (Mon Oct 23 2006 16:05:07 ) 

funny resolving sexual tension between two leads would be a series killer but haven't shows added a marriage or baby to improve ratings...seems i heard that once

Now wouldn't it be fabulous if whoever owns RS actually put out bona fide series of books involving L and R? Something that could explore all these possibilites but would be appealing to those who never even saw the series?

I don't mean to discount fanfic but i love to buy paperbacks and it would be fun to have a whole series of books to curl up with

by clervaux (Mon Oct 23 2006 17:40:32 ) 

I love all the Elizabeth Peters/Barbara Michaels books especially the series that features Amelia and Emerson Peabody. I think that Stephanie and Pierce would have made (and would still make) a great Amelia and Emerson.
by clervaux (Mon Oct 23 2006 17:44:36 ) 

Yep, I agree with what Mickey has said here. I would dearly love to read a collaboration between Michael Gleason and Susan Baskin (and some of the other great RS writers who have been mentioned on this thread) that reinvents what happened after the end of the fourth season. Kind of a literary do over would be fabulous.
by DCZinger   (Mon Oct 23 2006 17:46:41 ) 

ooooh, Oooh. Amelia and Emerson Peabody? I gotta get me some of those! Any particular titles that come to mind? 


by pianoRose   (Mon Oct 23 2006 18:00:07 ) 

i love that! a Do-over!! LOL
by clervaux (Mon Oct 23 2006 18:31:40 ) 

Zinger, start with Crocodile On The Sandbank, it's the first in the series and follow with Curse of the Pharoahs, the second book in the series. Here's a link to the website: The book also has a series of very fun feline characters.
by Xenos1981   (Mon Oct 23 2006 19:05:00 ) 

LOL, pianoRose...In our dreams!!! Maybe all the fanfic writers could pool their stuff and get a publisher... 

As far as adding marriage and/or baby to improve the ratings...Yeah, it's been done. Usually it spikes ratings for one or two episodes but then returns to the dumper. To me, that's basically "jumping the shark" right there. Oh, wait. That's another post!

by jrdedrick (Mon Oct 23 2006 19:21:53 ) 

Yah but those are usually series that suck anyway and need something like that to get the ratings up a bit. LOL


by Xenos1981   (Mon Oct 23 2006 19:50:40 ) 

Neeners! Oh, honey...I think that's the first time you've ever said (typed) the word "suck"! I think my bad habits are beginning to wear off on you!!!  Holy crap! That sucks!
by jrdedrick (Mon Oct 23 2006 19:58:24 ) 

I say SUCK all the time! LOL But I don't type it much. However, today has sucked so it fits! And it fit in the topic.


by Xenos1981   (Mon Oct 23 2006 20:03:53 ) 

Well, here's to an unsuckable tomorrow, Neeney!


by jrdedrick  (Mon Oct 23 2006 20:31:19 ) 

Thanks! I hope so too.


by DCZinger   (Tue Oct 24 2006 07:20:24 ) 

Thanks Clervaux, off to check out these books....feline characters? Sold. You must know that I have two spoiled furballs. 


by picac   (Tue Oct 24 2006 08:45:59 ) 

The Vicky Bliss books are written under the name Elizabeth Peters as well. They really are by far my favorite books of hers, and I think John is her best character (though Vicky is a good second) But then I've always had a soft spot for elegant charming thieves with fluid morality. ;-)
by MickeyBoggs   (Tue Oct 24 2006 09:30:14 ) 

Tiny correction. Amelia Peabody is the heroine. She marries Radcliffe Emerson (but DON'T call him Radcliffe). He calls her Peabody, she calls him Emerson, so it's easy to forget their "real" names!
by jrdedrick (Tue Oct 24 2006 09:36:52 ) 
Well whatever you call them, they sound fun and I'm gonna have to hunt down the books!


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